Question about Alia, Leto/Ghanima and Abomination

[Rick Rauros]

I am at the beginning of Children of Dune (so no spoilers please), and I'm
confused about the singling out of Alia as Abomination.

First of all, what exactly constitues Abomination? In the first book, Alia
frightened the Fremen of Sietch Tabr by having adult mental faculties as a
small child, and there were whispers that she was an Abomination. I took
this to mean that anyone who was born with ancestral memory was by
definition an Abomination. Yet in CoD, a distinction is made between Alia
and Leto/Ghanima - Alia is Abomination but Leto/Ghanima are not. All three
are capable of "giving airtime" to an inner ancestor (and do), yet Alia is
an Abomination. Why is this?

So Abomination equals Possessed? That definition seems inconsistent witht
the facts, since Jessica returned to Arrakis ostensibly to confirm/dismiss
the rumors that Alia was [becoming] an Abomination, and Jessica's arrival on
Arrakis occurs _before_ Alia encounters the Baron aspect and begins down the
road to Possession by him.

Also, Leto and Ghanima comment that a key distinction between themselves and
Alia is that they have not undergone the spice trance. What is the
significance of the spice trance as it relates to Abomination? It is
mentioned that Leto and Ghanima have participated in the spice-induced
sietch orgy - is this different from spice trance? Is orgy merely a "spice
high" and trance a "spice overdose"?

Thanks for helping me clear this up.

[j***@earthlink.net]

Possible spoilers for Children of Dune....not sure how much of it you
have read yet...I expose a few things that happen half way through the
book, but they are necessary to answer your questions.
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Post by Rick Rauros
I am at the beginning of Children of Dune (so no spoilers please), and I'm
confused about the singling out of Alia as Abomination.
First of all, what exactly constitues Abomination?

Abomination is when a personality out of the victim's past takes
dominance over the person, "posessing" them. Because the Pre-born have
not had enough time to form their own personalities, they are
especially vulnerable. The BG seem to assume that this is
inevitable...that there is no way to stop it from happening.

Post by Rick Rauros
Yet in CoD, a distinction is made between Alia
and Leto/Ghanima - Alia is Abomination but Leto/Ghanima are not.

Leto most certainly was...technically speaking. He even says so
himself. The way he overcame his internal hoard was to "bond" with
several of his most domiant ancestors...the main one was a Pharoe
somthing-or-other.

The resulting personality was no longer really Leto, but an amalgam of
these personalities which included Leto. So he was technically an
Abomination.

Ghanima was not posessed, because she took a different route; her
hypnotic thing she did allowed her to form an internal alliance with
benign ancestors to keep her from being posessed by the malignant
ones.

Post by Rick Rauros
All three
are capable of "giving airtime" to an inner ancestor (and do), yet Alia is
an Abomination. Why is this?

Only because they are Pre-born. The BG can do the same thing Leto and
Ghanima do...they simply have fewer memories to work with (Other RMs
only in the early books, and Female ancestors only in the later
books).

The idea is that Reverend Mothers are immune to this because they
already have intense training/inhibitions in place before they are
exposed to these memories. The Pre-born do not.

Post by Rick Rauros
So Abomination equals Possessed? That definition seems inconsistent witht
the facts, since Jessica returned to Arrakis ostensibly to confirm/dismiss
the rumors that Alia was [becoming] an Abomination, and Jessica's arrival on
Arrakis occurs _before_ Alia encounters the Baron aspect and begins down the
road to Possession by him.

Jessiva's actions are consistent with my definition above...she is
hoping that the BG assumptions that posession (ie., abomination) is
inevitable are wrong

Post by Rick Rauros
Also, Leto and Ghanima comment that a key distinction between themselves and
Alia is that they have not undergone the spice trance. What is the
significance of the spice trance as it relates to Abomination?

The spice increases awareness, which seems to make them more
vulnerable to their internal hoard (more sensitivity means it is
harder to block them out).

[Gh0st1n5h3ll]

Post by j***@earthlink.net

Post by Rick Rauros
I am at the beginning of Children of Dune (so no spoilers please), and I'm
confused about the singling out of Alia as Abomination.
First of all, what exactly constitues Abomination?

Abomination is when a personality out of the victim's past takes
dominance over the person, "posessing" them. Because the Pre-born have
not had enough time to form their own personalities, they are
especially vulnerable. The BG seem to assume that this is
inevitable...that there is no way to stop it from happening.

Post by Rick Rauros
Yet in CoD, a distinction is made between Alia
and Leto/Ghanima - Alia is Abomination but Leto/Ghanima are not.

Both were in danger to became one; observing Alia both concluded
that the over exposing to melange's trance made the mental doors weak
that happened to Alia, she expected to see the future as Paul abusing
of melange. Jesica didn't stop her.

Leto had to make an agreement with his past memories because the was
had several overdoze of melange.